MILITARIA WW2 NOMINATIF

1er FORUM DE DECOUVERTE ET D'AIDE A L'IDENTIFICATION D'OBJETS MILITAIRES DE LA SECONDE GUERRE MONDIALE, NOMINATIFS OU ATTRIBUES


Vous n'êtes pas connecté. Connectez-vous ou enregistrez-vous

Fusil Mauser Kar 98b "S 28" attribué(?) aux SS-TV

Voir le sujet précédent Voir le sujet suivant Aller en bas  Message [Page 1 sur 1]

Bonjour à tous,
J'espère ne pas me tromper en postant ici. En effet, l'arme que je souhaite vous présenter afin que vous apportiez éventuellement vos commentaires n'est pas à proprement "identifiée" au sens d'une attribution à un propriétaire nominatif, mais éventuellement identifiée dans le sens de son parcours historique, qui semble assez intéressant.
Il s'agit d'un fusil - neutralisé Saint-Etienne - Mauser Kar 98b monomatricule (donc déjà relativement rare si je ne m'abuse), variante plus rare encore baptisée "S 28" (dans certains ouvrages US) avec tonnerre vierge et seules quelques pièces marquées "S 28" - donc les premières véritables versions non remontées avec des pièces récupérées sur les G98 - et, cerise sur le gâteau... poinçonnée "SS-TV" sous le canon (la lettre "V" ayant apparemment été effacée lors de la neutralisation par un véritable  pig qui n'a sans doute même pas vu le marquage!).
La culasse est vierge de tout numéro de série.
Lors de son acquisition - il m'a été présenté comme un G98 reconditionné pendant l'entre-deux guerres" - le marquage SS était apparemment passé inaperçu! (je ne m'en suis moi-même rendu compte que longtemps plus tard, lors d'un énième démontage et inspection plus rigoureuse).
Après de nombreux posts ici ou là, j'ai pu reconstituer un historique plausible:
Kar98b affectée au 9ème Reiter Regiment (Cf. marquage sur le disque de la crosse : 3ème escadron du 9ème Reiter Regiment (régiment de cavalerie), arme n° 99), reversée et reconditionnée au dépot de Spandau vers 1934/35 (S sur la culasse qui aurait été changée à ce moment-là et pas renumérotée) et reaffectée à la SS-TV (SS-Totenkopfverbände) (marquage sous le canon).
Sans doute après-guerre, l'arme aurait été rechambrée en calibre de chasse, avec canon raccourci et "tourné" à sa base de 3/4 de tour, ce qui a décalé le N° de série et le marquage SS (celui-ci devait donc à l'origine être bien visible, au-dessus du bois).
Le pauvre fusil a enfin été neutralisé avec "ablation" du V du marquage sous le canon.
Voilà pour les suppositions  tongue 
Place aux photos, et dans l'attente de vos commentaires!




























































Pour le marquage SS, sous le canon :





Dernière édition par konopka le Dim 27 Avr - 17:12, édité 1 fois

Voir le profil de l'utilisateur

Admin

avatar
Admin
Bravo Konopka ! C'est une bien belle arme que lesconnaisseurs apprécieront,même si, comme tu le dis, elle n'est pas "nominative"...
Son parcours et son historique n'en sont pas moins intéressants; ne boudons pas notre plaisir !!!  Smile 

Pour ceux qui souhaitent approfondir la question, voici quelques infos sur nos chers "Momo"... Par contre, c'est en anglais...  Embarassed 

This article was originally published in the KCN in the April & May 1990 newsletters as:
THE K98k MAUSER OBERNDORF
PART I and PART II
By Robert Jensen as edited by Peter Kuck 06/18/2002
In February of 1934 the Heereswaffenamt (Army Weapons Office) ordered the adoption of a new military
rifle. The new rifle was a version of the Mauser “STANDARD MODELL” (also known as the Banner
Mauser) that had been in production at Mauser Oberndorf since 1924. This new rifle differed only in proof
and chamber markings. The first rifles produced in 1934 used the letter “K” on top of the receiver ring to
disguise the year of manufacture. These Mauser “K” date rifles are often referred to as “prototype or preproduction”
rifles due to their limited production numbers and the fact that they were not “officially” adopted
until the June 21, 1935 announcement in the official publication of the German War Ministry.
The 1934 “S/42K” rifles produced by Mauser Oberndorf established the standard for all German military K98k rifles.
Mauser would supply the blueprints, tooling, gauges, etc. to other manufacturers and receive a royalty for each
K98k produced. The “K” date Mauser K98k had a solid walnut stock with a flat milled buttplate. All of the
metal parts were milled, polished, and blued. Each of the small parts on the rifle including the 10 inch long
cleaning was also serial numbered and proofed. There was no provision for a sight hood. (All pre-1940 rifles
from any manufacturer that have a sight hood were reworked later during the war) This
rifle has a Weimar style proof and the inspectors “box type” proofs. The known serial number range 1934 is
from 1728 to 5408 with an estimated production run of 10,000 rifles. The “S/42K” is certainly one of the
rarest of the K98k rifles. All known examples were issued to the Army
although some naval issue rifles are possible.
The 1935 “S42/G” rifles are identical to 1934 production with the exception of the receiver code.
The proofing remained the “box” of “S92”, “K185”, and “K176”. Weimar style proofs were
retained. The known serial number range is from 3526 to 2335s with an estimated production run
of 193,000 rifles. “G” date rifles produced for the German Navy are known to exist and are
marked with either an “M” on the stock or with a Nord or Ost property mark on the bolt takedown
washer. There are no known Luftwaffe “G” date rifles.
In 1936 Mauser made the switch to a full four-digit date and changed the receiver code to “S/42”. In this year Waffenamt “63”
appears on the “S/42” rifles. The proof eagle changes from the earlier Weimar type but still retains downward turned wings
without a swastika. Army “H”, Navy “M”, and Luftwaffe “L” branch of service marks can be found on this year’s production. A
1936 dated “S/42” Luftwaffe marked rifle with all the correct external numbers and proofs in a laminate stock has been noted
even though the use of laminate stocks was not officially authorized until 1937. An army marked, 1936 dated rifle which was
diverted to the SS has also been noted. It has the required eagle N commercial proof in addition to the expected Waffenamts.
The SS proofs are on the left rear side of the barrel and on the pistol grip of the stock. It is a “death’s head” surmounted by the
two runes and a star. These early SS rifles, like the SS Gew.98 reworks, were issued to concentration camp guards. The known
serial number range for 1936 production is from 1326 to 6392z with an estimated production run of 270,000 rifles.
All three services received “S/42” rifles in 1937. Laminated stocks with flat buttplates
appear in enough numbers to be noticeable (1937 dated K98k’s with original, rather then replacement
stocks are difficult to find). Nazi Waffenamt “WaA63” proofs can be found in conjunction with the
earlier shaped Weimar eagles. The known serial number range is from 1064 to 6291z with an
estimated production run of 270,000 rifles. SS acquired and issued rifles from Mauser Oberndorf
which are dated 1937 are known to exist.
In 1938 the Mauser Oberndorf manufacturing code was changed from “S/42” to “42”. The “S/42” coded K98k is more
difficult to find than the “42” coded rifle. The “S/42” coded rifles differ from the earlier years only in the use of the Nazi eagles
rather than the earlier down-turned wing eagles. Service branch “H”, “M”, and “L” rifles exist. The known serial number range
is from 67 to 5968I with an estimated production run of 100,000 rifles. With the exception of the receiver code, the 1938 code
“42” rifles are the same as the 1938 code “S/42” rifles. The known serial number ranges for the “42” rifles are from 5102g to
1631z with an estimated production run of 190,000 rifles. That “42” code rifles can be found in the “g” range while “S/42” rifles
are found in the “i” range can be explained. Older “S/42” marked receivers would be in the parts bins when a supply of newly
made “42” receivers would arrive and be put on top them. When this happened, receivers that were placed last into the parts bin
would be first to be used from the parts bin. Once again SS rifles are known in 1938.
The 1939 code “42” rifle follows the 1938 standard. Production continued to be sent to all three military branches.
The known serial number range is from 199 to 8259bb with an estimated production run of 290,000 rifles. The double letter
suffix, (previously used in WWI rifle production after the “z” serial number bock) appeared. The most notable change was the
change from the 10-inch to the 12-inch cleaning rod that alleviated the breakage problem, which existed with the shorter cleaning
rod. Three of the longer cleaning rods could now clean the entire bore of the K98k. instead of four. Clay Dutton has reported a
“U” block 1939 code “42” rifle with E/63 E/655 E/655 reciever proofs. This same sequence is repeated on the rear sight base
while the triggerguard and floorplate have WaA 655 waffenampts and the balance of the rifle has E/63 proof marks. (01/18/2004)
The waffenamts on the code “42” rifle changed in 1940 from Waffenamt “63” to Waffenamt “655”.
Some “no” letter range rifles can be found with the “63” proofs. A Mixture of “63” and “655” proofs can be
found on the same rifle in the”a” range but as soon as the “63” proofed parts were used only the “655”
proofed rifles appear. Flat buttplates were discontinued late in 1940 and cupped buttplates were used to
prevent the separation of the Butt stock. The known serial number for the code “42” 1940 rifle is from 1660
to 5499gg with an estimated production run of 340,000 rifles. Subcontracted parts, such as the buttplates coded” bpr” and “brg”
appear. Kriegsmarine, and Luftwaffe rifles are known to have been produced in 1940 but no examples have yet been reported.
In 1941 the Mauser Oberndorf manufacturing code was changed from “42” to “byf” and the
receiver date was changed from a four-digit to a two-digit date. Army and Luftwaffe rifles were produced
in 1941. The front sight hood was introduced. Small parts (bolt parts, floorplates, followers, and front
sight bases) with Waffenamt “WaA103” and “WaA140” proofs were used (made by F.N. in occupied
Belgium). The known serial number range for the 1941 “byf” K98k is from 4514 to 6474hh with an
estimated production run of 350,000 rifles. Luftwaffe issued s/n 1059I has the luft acceptance proof
stamped on the right side of the butt stock.
Lt. Col. Robert D Whittington III in his book
GERMAN PISTOLS AND HOLSTERS 1934 /
1945, reports that five component parts were made
for the K98k by F.N. They included barrels, bolts,
floorplates, followers, sight bases, and grenade
launchers. He further cites production figures as
follows:
In 1942 the waffenamt “135” proof appears on the “byf”
98k rifles. Mauser Oberndorf would use this waffenamt until
production ceased in 1945. It appears on the receiver ring for the
first time as a final assembly proof over the manufacturer’s code.
A solid “speed milled” front band (without the “H” style cutouts)
appears creating the variation known as the intermediate or mid-war style. All small parts
were still numbered. The known serial number range is from 209 to 459nn with an estimated
production run of 410,000 rifles. A waffenamt over “WaA135” was substituted for the
branch of service stamp on the Butt stock. Beginning within the “aa” block serial number
range the underside of the rear sight leaf was left without range marks in an attempt to speed
up and simplify production.
year Bolts Barrels
1940 1,000 1,000
1941 170,000 53,000
1942 548,000 55,000
1943 565,000 10,000
1944 630,000 140,000
The 1943 “byf” K98k’s follow the 1942 standard. Solid walnut, laminated beechwood and
solid oak stocks can be found in the “k” block serial number range. Stamped trigger guards,
front bands, and band springs are used in Mauser production. Cupped buttplates made by the
subcontractor “gqm” appear. Greater emphasis was now being placed on production and lower
costs, due to the staggering losses of men and weapons at Stalingrad, Tunisia and on other
fronts as the tide turned against the Germans. The known serial number range is from 4298 to
29369 1 for an estimated production run of 1,142,336 rifles.
1944 was the peak year of production for “byf” K98k’s. The 44 “byf” is the most commonly encountered K98k in this country.
The known serial number range was from 3342 to 87559 “1”. Production went through the single letter, double letter, five digit
no letter, and into the five digit single letter block culminating with the five digit “1” block. As the year progressed milled parts
were phased out in favor of stamped parts and by the end of the year Mauser was using all
stamped parts for the front and lower bands, band springs, trigger guards, floor plates, and
followers (some supplied by other manufacturers). Many collectors refer to these as the late
war or “Kriegs Modell (war model)” rifles. 1944 saw the appearance of a recoil lug, which
resembled a “button” instead of the flat-sided lug, which was used earlier. Fewer parts were
numbered and as the year progressed (he by the five digit “1” block) the most common
configuration was to have only the receiver, bolt, gas shield, and cocking piece numbered to the
gun. Stocks, which are not numbered late in the “1” block, are sometimes found with the
corresponding serial number written in pencil. In the five-digit “1” block phosphate parts (bolts)
were used for the first time. These were the first dual tone guns. Some late five digit “1” block
rifles can be still be found with a “speed milled” front band. The simplified bolt with two round gas holes appeared in 1944
replacing the bolt using oval gas holes. Exterior finish deteriorated due to the loss of skilled workmen as the military manpower
needs of the Army and Luftwaffe became critical. Unskilled foreign workers replaced these workers effecting the quality of the
fit and finish. However, no short cuts were made in quality control with regard to safety features or material composition of the
firing parts. The “byf” barrel shield was used for the first time in 1944.
In 1945 the Mod 98 marking was moved from the receiver siderail to the top of
the receiver ring. The known serial number range is from 988 to 8268a. Both dual tone
and all phosphate rifles can be found. Stocks can be either solid walnut or laminated
beech with bands held on by the customary stamped spring or be wood screws. Stocks
with and without the cleaning rod channel drilled out when bayonet lugs are present exist
as well as stocks without the bayonet lug. When the bayonet lug is not found the front and
rear bands are held on with simple wood screws. A sheet metal cap is used to cover the
tip of the stock and is held in place with a wood screw. Stocks with the usual bolttakedown
washer in the rear and with the simple hole in the toe of the buttplate are also
quit right—in all cases the “WaA135” should be present. No small parts are numbered and
often the bolts are only numbered on the stem of the bolt handle. The late war simplified
bolt is common by 1945. Correct “byf” 45 rifles are very scarce. Many have had post war
alterations. “byf” 45 rifles in 7.92 Kurz are known to exist.
In early 1945 Mauser’s code was again changed from “byf” to “svw”. The configuration of the rifle remained
unchanged. The known serial number range is from 1377a to 5593b. Comments concerning the “byf” 45 apply to the svw 45.
This variation is very hard to find in its original configuration. Finally, it was decided, for reasons as yet unknown, to change the
date to a code rather than digits and the “svw 45” became the “svwMB”. The story of the Mauser Oberndorf K98k as far as date
is concerned had now come full circle from the “S42/K” date, through the four digit and two digit and back again to a the letter
code of “MB” for a date. The known serial number range for the “svwMB” is from 6890b to 924gb. This is certainly a rare
rifle as most of the ones we see are post war French issue.
Mauser Oberndorf made K98k’s equipped with rails for the ZF41 exist in all the years from 1941 through 1945. Most
of the 1944 and 1945 dated rifles equipped with the ZF4l scope rails were
issued as standard rifles without scopes as the production of ZF4l scopes was
discontinued in mid-1943. The rear sight sleeves with the rails were
perfectly useable and were issued as standard K98k’s. Through the years
most of these rifles have had scopes put on them by stateside collectors who
also alter the stock so that the ZF4l will slide on. To find a 1944 or a 1945
rifle with both a rail and an unaltered stock is rare.
Addenda: correction made to estimated production totals for 1935 S/42G. Error caught by Johnny_mustang 1/16/2004
1941 Luftwaffe variant byf by Mauser Oberndorf
Early 1941 variant
Proofing & serial numbers (sample rifle 1941 byf)
Receiver code byf (41) receiver proofs waf 135(3) (on side)
Side rail Mod.98
Serial number 4 digits possible alpha suffix
Upper band s/n waf WaA135 milled “H”
Lower band s/n waf 135
Trigger guard s/n waf 135(2) milled with lock screws (replacement)
Bolt ribbed & blued (N/A miss-matched)
Root rear firing proof top s/n und erside
Gas shield s/n
Safety
Cocking piece
Extractor s/n
Extractor collar
Front sight hood waf 135(2)
Rear sight meter scale both sides s/n waf 135(2)
Rear sight base no s/n waf 135
Stock Laminate
Stock Markings (external reported only)
Side waf WaA135 (2) & “L” (Luftwaffe)
Pistol grip waf WaA135
Spine s/n, & Waf WaA135 (2), P
Bayonet lug s/n waf 135
Magazine follower s/n waf 135
1941 byf by Mauser Oberndorf
The early 1941 Heer variant byf by Mauser Oberndorf
Proofing & serial numbers (sample rifle 1941 byf)
Receiver code byf (41) receiver proofs waf 655(3) (on side)
Side rail Mod.98
Serial number 4 digits possible alpha suffix (1059 i)
Upper band s/n waf WaA655 milled “H”
Lower band s/n waf 655
Trigger guard s/n waf 655(2) milled with lock screws
Bolt miss-matched ribbed & blued
Root
Gas shield
Safety
Cocking piece
Extractor
Extractor collar
Front sight hood waf 655
Rear sight meter scale both sides s/n waf 655(2)
Rear sight base no s/n waf 655
Stock Laminate
Stock Markings (external reported only)
Side waf WaA655 (2) & “L” (Heer)
Pistol grip waf WaA655 (2)
Spine s/n, & Waf WaA655 (2), P
Bayonet lug s/n waf 655
Magazine follower s/n waf 655 (replacement)
1942 byf by Mauser Oberndorf
The early 1942 variant
Proofing & serial numbers (sample rifle 1942 byf)
Receiver code byf (42) receiver proofs waf 135(2) (on side)
Side rail Mod.98
Serial number 4 digits possible alpha suffix (s/n 1721 C)
Upper band s/n waf WaA135 milled “H”
Lower band s/n waf 135
Trigger guard no s/n none milled with lock screws (replacement)
Bolt ribbed & blued
Root rear firing proof top s/n und erside waf 135, waf 140
Gas shield s/n waf 135(2)
Safety s/n waf 135
Cocking piece s/n waf 140
Extractor s/n waf 135
Extractor collar waf 135
Front sight hood waf 140
Rear sight meter scale both sides s/n waf 135(2)
Rear sight base no s/n waf 135
Stock Laminate
Stock Markings (external reported only)
Side waf WaA135 (2) & “H” (Heer)
Pistol grip waf WaA135
Spine s/n, & Waf WaA135 (2), C, P
Bayonet lug no s/n waf 135
Magazine follower no s/n waf 135 (replacement)
1942 byf by Mauser Oberndorf
The mid 1942 variant (rebuilt)
Proofing & serial numbers (sample rifle 1942 byf)
Receiver code byf (42) receiver proofs waf 135(1) (on top)
Side rail Mod.98
Serial number 4 digits possible alpha suffix (s/n 5785O)
Upper band stamped
Lower band stamped
Trigger guard stamped phosphate
Bolt ribbed & blued
Root rear firing proof top s/n underside waf 140
Gas shield s/n no waf
Safety s/n no waf
Cocking piece s/n waf 140
Extractor s/n no waf
Extractor collar waf 54
Front sight hood waf 140
Rear sight meter scale both sides s/n no waf
Rear sight base no s/n no waf
Stock Laminate
Stock Markings miss-matched
Side
Pistol grip
Spine
Bayonet lug
Magazine follower
Note ** this rifle has a replacement barrel with a firing proof, the letter “D” and a waf 135
1943 byf by Mauser Oberndorf
The mid 1943 variant
Proofing & serial numbers (sample rifle 1943 byf) (Hal Kolding)
Receiver code byf (43) receiver proofs waf 135(1) (on side) waf 135(1) (on top)
Side rail Mod.98
Serial number 5 digits possible alpha suffix (s/n 38533g)
Upper band s/n no waf speed milled
Lower band s/n no waf milled
Trigger guard s/n (5 digits) waf 135(1) milled with lock screws
Bolt ribbed & blued
Root rear firing proof top s/n no waf
Gas shield s/n (4) no waf
Safety s/n (4) no waf
Cocking piece s/n (4) no waf
Extractor s/n no waf
Extractor collar no waf
Front sight hood waf (1)
Rear sight meter scale one side s/n (4) no waf
Rear sight slide s/n (4)
Rear sight base no s/n no waf
Stock Walnut
Stock Markings (external reported only)
Side Waf WaA135
Pistol grip Waf WaA135
Spine Waf WaA135
Bayonet lug no s/n no waf
Butt Plate gqm 43 WaA98
Floor Plate s/n (5) no waf Milled
Magazine follower no s/n no waf Milled
Barrel Band 43R170
1943 byf by Mauser Oberndorf
The mid 1943 variant
Proofing & serial numbers (sample rifle 1943 byf)
Receiver code byf (43) receiver proofs waf 135(1) (on side) waf 135(1) (on top)
Side rail Mod.98
Serial number 5 digits possible alpha suffix (s/n 13694k)
Upper band s/n no waf stamped
Lower band s/n no waf milled
Trigger guard s/n (5 digits) waf 135(1) milled with lock screws
Bolt ribbed & blued
Root rear firing proof top s/n no waf
Gas shield s/n(4) no waf
Safety s/n(4) no waf
Cocking piece s/n (4) no waf
Extractor no s/n no waf
Extractor collar no waf
Front sight hood waf 140(1)
Rear sight meter scale one side s/n (4) no waf
Rear sight base no s/n no waf
Stock Walnut
Stock Markings (external reported only)
Side Waf WaA135
Pistol grip Waf WaA135
Spine Waf WaA135
Bayonet lug no s/n no waf
Floor Plate s/n (5) no waf Milled
Magazine follower no s/n no waf Milled
1944 byf by Mauser Oberndorf
The early 1944 variant
Proofing & serial numbers (sample rifle 1944 byf)
Receiver code byf (44) receiver proofs waf 135(1) (on side) waf 135(1) (on top)
Side rail Mod.98
Serial number 5 digits possible alpha suffix (s/n 27552)
Upper band s/n no waf stamped
Lower band s/n waf 135 stamped
Trigger guard s/n (5 digits) waf 135(1) milled with lock screws
Bolt ribbed & blued
Root rear firing proof top s/n waf 135
Gas shield s/n no waf
Safety s/n no waf
Cocking piece s/n no waf
Extractor s/n no waf
Extractor collar no waf
Front sight hood waf
Rear sight meter scale one side no s/n no waf
Rear sight base no s/n
Stock Walnut
Stock Markings (external reported only) stock drilled for cleaning rod
Side Waf WaA135
Pistol grip Waf WaA135
Spine Waf WaA135
Bayonet lug no s/n no waf
Floor Plate s/n (5) waf 135 milled
Magazine follower no s/n no waf Milled
Barrel band 43D931 waf135 (1)
1944 byf by Mauser Oberndorf
The early 1944 variant
Proofing & serial numbers (sample rifle 1944 byf)
Receiver code byf (44) receiver proofs waf 135(1) (on side) waf 135(1) (on top)
Side rail Mod.98
Serial number 5 digits possible alpha suffix (s/n 26579d)
Upper band s/n no waf stamped
Lower band s/n no waf milled
Trigger guard s/n (4 digits) waf 135(2) stamped with lock screws
Bolt ribbed & blued
Root rear firing proof top s/n no waf
Gas shield s/n no waf
Safety s/n no waf
Cocking piece s/n no waf
Extractor s/n no waf
Extractor collar no waf
Front sight hood waf
Rear sight meter scale one side no s/n waf 135(1)
Rear sight base no s/n i
Stock Laminate
Stock Markings (external reported only) stock drilled for cleaning rod
Side no marks
Pistol grip no marks
Spine Waf WaA135
Bayonet lug no s/n waf 135
Floor Plate s/n (2) waf 135 stamped
Magazine follower no s/n no waf Milled
1944 byf by Mauser Oberndorf
The early 1944 variant
Proofing & serial numbers (sample rifle 1944 byf)
Receiver code byf (44) receiver proofs waf 135(2) (on side) waf 135(1) (on top)
Side rail Mod.98
Serial number 5 digits possible alpha suffix (s/n 56070k)
Upper band no s/n no waf stamped
Lower band no s/n no waf stamped
Trigger guard no s/n no waf qnw stamped no lock screws
Bolt ribbed & blued
Root rear firing proof top s/n no waf
Gas shield s/n no waf
Safety no s/n no waf
Cocking piece s/n no waf
Extractor s/n no waf
Extractor collar no s/n no waf
Front sight hood waf
Rear sight meter scale one side no s/n waf 18(1)
Rear sight base no s/n waf unreadable
Stock Laminate
Stock Markings (external reported only) stock not drilled for cleaning rod
Side no marks
Pistol grip no marks
Spine Waf WaA135
Bayonet lug no s/n waf 135
Floor Plate no s/n byf stamped
Magazine follower no s/n waf Stamped phosphate
1944 byf by Mauser Oberndorf
The mid 1944 variant
Proofing & serial numbers (sample rifle 1944 byf)
Receiver code byf (44) receiver proofs waf 135(2) (on side) waf
Receiver blued
Side rail Mod. 98
Serial number 5 digits possible alpha suffix (s/n 40499l) (lower case L block))
Upper band no s/n no waf stamped
Lower band no s/n no waf stamped
Trigger guard no s/n waf 135(2) byf stamped phosphate no lock screws
Bolt ribbed & blued
Root rear firing proof top s/n “0499l” waf 140
Gas shield no s/n “0499” waf 221 proceded by an “ e”
Safety no s/n no waf phosphate
Cocking piece no s/n “99” no waf phosphate
Extractor no s/n no waf
Extractor collar no s/n no waf
Front sight hood waf
Rear sight meter scale one side no s/n waf 18(1)
rear sight slide no sn waf 135(1)
Rear sight base no s/n waf unradable
Stock Laminate
Stock Markings (external reported only) stock drilled for cleaning rod
Side no marks
Pistol grip no marks
Spine Waf WaA135
Bayonet lug missing
Floor Plate no s/n byf stamped phosphate
Magazine follower no s/n waf Stamped phosphate
1945 byf by Mauser Oberndorf
The early 1945 variant
Proofing & serial numbers (sample rifle 1945 byf 45)
Receiver code Mod. 98
byf 45 receiver proofs waf 135(2) (on side) waf 135(1) (on top)
Side rail blank
Serial number 5 digits possible alpha suffix (s/n 8654a)
Upper band no s/n no waf speed milled
Lower band no s/n no waf stamped
Trigger guard no s/n byf & waf 135(2) stamped with any lock screws
Bolt ribbed & blued
Root rear firing proof top s/n no waf
Gas shield no s/n no waf
Safety no s/n no waf
Cocking piece no s/n no waf
Extractor no s/n no waf
Extractor collar no s/n no waf
Front sight hood no waf
Rear sight meter scale one side no s/n no waf
Rear sight base no s/n waf 135(1) stamped phosphate
Stock Laminate
Stock Markings (external reported only)
Side unreadable waf
Pistol grip unreadable waf
Spine * C
Bayonet lug no s/n waf 135
Floor Plate no s/n no waf stamped phosphate
Magazine follower no s/n waf 135 stamped


_________________
Vous voulez voir un des plus beaux blockhaus d'Europe ? Rejoignez-moi sur mon blog : http://aok-7-le-mans.skyrock.com/
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur http://militarianominatif.forumactif.org
Très belle arme en effet et je suis d'autant plus intéressé que je possède une telle arme prise à Thiers par les FFI sur les armes saisies lors de la libération de la ville, le 25 août 1944 sur les éléments du 18ème Bataillon SS.
Il est aussi marqué S28 et tu pourras le voir sur ce forum à ce lien :
http://militarianominatif.forumactif.org/t90-fusil-mauser-g98-b

Merci de nous l'avoir présenté et sincères amitiés...

Voir le profil de l'utilisateur
Le tien est effectivement superbe! Et en plus, tu connais son histoire pour le coup (en tout cas, la fin de celle-ci  Very Happy )!
Comporte-t-il d'autres marquages "S 28" à part celui visible sur l'embouchoir? Ce qui est étonnant, c'est le "1920" sur le boîtier qui, en général et d'après ce que j'avais pu lire, est plutôt vierge.
Je copie/colle ci-après le détail des différents modèles de 98b tiré d'une des rares études très pointues sur ce modèle dont on ne parle généralement que très brièvement rédigée par l'Américain Mark J. Wieringa, qui m'avait répondu il y a déjà quelques années sur mes questions quant à mon spécimen.

KARABINER COLLECTORS NETWORK May 1993

The Karabiner 98b
Some Observations and Speculations
Written by Mark J. Wieringa
Edited with additional illustrations by Peter Kuck 03/02/2003, 04/26/2006


When I (Wieringa ) committed to do this article some time back, I was hopeful that some serious research with a good number of recorded rifle markings would lead to some fairly solid conclusions. Unfortunately, this has not turned out to be the case. However, the assembled data is interesting, and this article presents a summary of the analysis conducted, along with some tentative findings.

The database for this analysis consists of information on 34 different Karab.98b examples. Some of these were not much more than receivers when recorded; it is no secret that it is tough to find a reasonable example of this model. The data were arrayed by ascending serial numbers, as it appears the main Simson production run is one serial sequence regardless of year of manufacture. If true, this would indicate a total Simson production of about 60,000. This seems to be reasonable given a 100,000-man post—WW I German army, the fact that this total excludes Gew.98 rifles converted to Karab.98b configuration, and the fact the infantry continued to use Gew.98 rifles modified with the new s.S. rear sight assembly. It also is compatible with the observed rarity of Karab.98b today.

A few words should be said about the design of the Karab.98b. At the end of WW I, the Allies stipulated that Germany’s small army have a very high proportion of cavalry units, the experiences of that conflict having demonstrated that horse cavalry was obsolete. The Allies reasoned that this restriction would further reduce the effectiveness of the Reichsheer by having the bulk of it equipped as cavalry troopers. The Germans adroitly sidestepped this inconvenience by treating its cavalry units as mounted infantry, and outfitted them accordingly. The Karab.98b is a direct result of this thinking; it is an infantry rifle, with a few concessions for carry on horseback such as the side— mounted sling and turned—down bolt. As such, its lineage is more directly traced to the “Radfahrer Gewehr” (special Gew.98 for bicycle troops) and the “Schutztruppen Gewehr” (special Gew.98 for mounted infantry in German Southwest Africa) than to the Kar.98a.

Six major variations of the Karab.98b were identified, based on markings. The basic physical characteristics of the model do not vary significantly, physical differences being largely confined to the use of reworked Gew.98 parts as compared with new Simson production parts. A mix seems to be the norm, with individual rifles ranging from all new parts to having many reworked or original Gew.98 parts. The six major variations identified are described below; it is entirely possible that others may exist.

Major Variations

“S 28” - This variation is a blank receiver rifle having Imperial style Crown/O acceptance markings, on most parts, an Imperial style test proof eagle, but no sidewall marking. The bottom flat of the receiver is marked with a large “S 28”, and several other parts are marked “S 28” as well. This marking may indicate that “S 28” was Simson’s    “S-code,” but no Karab.98b has yet surfaced with S/28 on the top of the receiver ring, and it is not likely that any exist. The Imperial markings in this case are post-WW I inspection marks, and not old pre-1918 markings on reworked parts. It has been rumored, but not proven, that Imperial stamps were intentionally used to mask new production. Perhaps a more likely explanation is that no other markings had been given approval by military authorities, and that old (or old-style) dies were used until the down-wing eagle was adopted. Given the Imperial flavor of this variation, it has been placed first in the chronology of variations, even though several other rifles have lower serial numbers. It is possible this example represents a separate serial range, or it may represent an anomaly in a single serial sequence. Mark Wieringa examined only one example in the 9300 no letter range.  The other examples examined by Peter Kuck are s/n 1063a and s/n 9456a. Receiver inspection is three Crown/O stamps.


Dated Simson - These rifles have full receiver markings of “SIMSON & Co., SUHL.” with the date of manufacture.  Manufacture dates of 1924 (s/n 9456 a) and 1925 (s/n 2632) are confirmed, and 1926 is reliably reported but not verified. Receiver sidewalls are still marked “Gew.98.” Although dated Simson Karab.98b have been established, it is possible that both Karab.98b and Gew.98 variants were produced with Simson receiver markings. Very few of these dated Simsons turn up, and most seem to have been later converted to Kar.98k configuration, or sporterized. These appear to come second in the chronological sequence as one has some “S 28” parts, they still have the “Gew.98.” sidewall marking, and the serial number range fits. Receiver proofing consists of the typical Weimar down-wing eagle test proof, and down-wing Eagle/6, Eagle/6, Eagle/14 on 1924 dates, or Eagle/6, Eagle/14, Eagle/14 on the 1925 dates. Serial range is 371 to 1200a on the few-recorded examples.


S Receiver - This variation is similar in markings to the dated Simson, except that the receiver lacks the full markings, having only a capital “S” on the top. This mark is centered on the receiver, about two—thirds of the way to the front edge, and is similar in size to the capital letters used in the normal receiver markings. The serial range, acceptance markings, and “Gew.98.” sidewall marking indicate it falls third in the chronological sequence. Receiver proofing is down-wing Eagle/6, Eagle/14, Eagle/14. Eagle/14 inspection appears only on the earliest Karab.98b, and is not seen after this variation.

Blank Receiver - This is the most common Karab.98b variation, having the script “Karab.98b.” or “Gew.98” sidewall marking, a blank receiver top, and an “S” (of various forms) on the right front of the receiver, forward of the inspection markings. The data array shows that this variation logically follows the previous variation, the Simson “S” having been moved from the top of the receiver to the right side, and the “Gew.98” marking superseded by the “Karab.98b” inscription. This variation actually encompasses two sub-variations: those using reworked Gew.98 receivers and those using new production receivers. Reworked Gew.98 receivers are sometimes seen, and may be intermixed throughout the production run. The same may be true of other parts. Serial numbers start in the low “b” range and extend into the high “e” or low “f” range, based on the admittedly statistically inadequate observation sample.

Initially, it was thought that the shape of the Simson “S” on the right receiver might be a type of code for the date of production. Six distinct forms of the “S” are known, as shown in the accompanying chart. Unfortunately, although some general trends can be seen, a pattern did not emerge when the receiver inspection/acceptance markings and “S” type were arranged by ascending serial number. In general, the slanted block “S” was the last style, preceded by the vertical block “S”.  The runic and stylized “S” was intermingled, and the standard capital “S” was normally found on the earliest rifles. The script “S” was observed only on the “Mod.98” variation discussed below. Twenty-five Karab.98b of this variation were available for this analysis of receiver markings.

Receiver inspection/acceptance markings also showed no clear pattern. Eagle/6 and Eagle/43 are the most common, and are found throughout production. Eagle/76 and Eagle/46 appear sporadically, while Eagle/33 does not appear until the high “c” range. The order or combination of these four inspection stamps is inconsistent, and no conclusions concerning them can be drawn at this time.


“Mod.98” Marked - The last variation is the most enigmatic. Although both recorded examples are in the “b” block, it is felt that these are very likely out of the normal serial sequence. The receiver tops are blank, and yet another variation of the Simson “S,” a script letter, is in the usual location. Test proof eagles are very similar. However, the acceptance office numbers are quite different from other “b” block examples, being Eagle/81 and Eagle/67 in addition to the more familiar Eagle/43. The sidewalls of this variation are marked “Mod.98.” in script, in a style similar to, but distinctive from that on “S/27”, “27”, “ax”, and “ce” coded Kar.98k. As it is known that the “Mod.98.” marking was established by a September 1930, army order, it seems reasonable to assume that these must be late Karab.98b made between late 1930 or 1931 and about 1933. The “b” block serial numbers can not be explained with the information available.



S Variant
s/n 8868a


Runic S Variant
s/n 1123 f, s/n 7615 s,  


Gew.98 Rework - This loose grouping is composed of standard Gew.98 rifles converted to Karab.98b. Examples commonly retain their original serial numbers, and as they are not part of the Simson production serial sequence they are not included in the analysis described above. For the same reason, no estimate of their numbers can be made. Conversion was accomplished by replacing the rear sight assembly with the K98k type rear sight, turning down the bolt and the relieving the stock under the bolt knob, replacing the lower band with the wider side—loop version, cutting the buttstock for the side—mounted sling, patching in the lower sling swivel plate cutout, removing the upper band hook, adding the tube-and—washer assembly (if needed), and notching the follower to block the bolt.

Many of these rifles had their receivers scrubbed, but often retained their original Gew.98 serial numbers. Others still have their original maker inscriptions, and are only Karab.98b by their configuration. The “Gew.98” sidewall marking can also either be present or scrubbed, and possible remarked “Karab.98b.” Examples of this variation are exceptionally diverse in markings and features, just as their contemporary Gew.98 (with new rear sights) counterparts are. This is likely explained by the fact that they were converted to Karab.98b configuration by various facilities and at different times.

Karab.98b of any variation can be found with single—digit numbers stamped beside the three inspection/acceptance marks on the right side of the receiver. While normally associated with the inspection markings, more than three additional numbers (and occasionally letters) can be present. It is thought that these are “re-inspection” markings from reworking or rebuilding. Of the 35 Karab.98b recorded, eight had these additional markings on the right receiver. On a couple of rifles, a very small down-wing Eagle/6 was seen above the first (left) inspection stamp. It is suspected that this mark has the same meaning as the earlier Crown/RC “Revisions Commission” marking found on Gew.98 and Kar.98a. If true, then this marking indicates a rifle flagged by the primary inspector as having a minor flaw, which was later accepted by a review board.


The author wishes to thank those KCN members and others who shared information from their rifles for this analysis. Anyone who has information on additional variations, or has corrections on anything presented here, is encouraged to contact the author (Mark Wieringa) directly or through the KCN (now defunct).

©Mark J. Wieringa

Voir le profil de l'utilisateur
konopka a écrit:Le tien est effectivement superbe! Et en plus, tu connais son histoire pour le coup (en tout cas, la fin de celle-ci  Very Happy )!
Comporte-t-il d'autres marquages "S 28" à part celui visible sur l'embouchoir? Ce qui est étonnant, c'est le "1920" sur le boîtier qui, en général et d'après ce que j'avais pu lire, est plutôt vierge.

Merci pour ta réponse et ton avis sur mon exemplaire.

Je réagis néanmoins à ces quelques lignes.

Tout d'abord mon 98b est tout au même numéro comme tu pourras le remarquer sur les photos et n'a subit aucune modif ni réparation, que ce soit par l'Armée Allemande, ou par la suite après sa capture sur un élément SS de Thiers.
Le marquage S28 est lui aussi d'origine comme l'embouchoir.

Ensuite pour le marquage 1920 sur le boitier, ne te fit pas à la littérature US mais plus aux ouvrages Européens dont les livres de Jean HUON qui montre preuve à l'appui (photos) les différents marquages dont celui des dates de boitiers.
Sur de nombreux ouvrages US sur les armes, les auteurs donnent des explications ou des noms erronés.
D'ailleurs si tu vas voir le lien que je t'ai indiqué sur ce forum, tu y verras des extraits d'un des livres de Jean HUON où tu y verras ces marquages de boitier.

Sincères amitiés...

Voir le profil de l'utilisateur

Admin

avatar
Admin
Petit up pour Konopka qui aime bien les variantes :

http://militarianominatif.forumactif.org/t215-une-petite-presentation#1011

Je l'avais rajoutté dans sa présentation mais je pense qu'il ne l'a pas vu...   Wink


_________________
Vous voulez voir un des plus beaux blockhaus d'Europe ? Rejoignez-moi sur mon blog : http://aok-7-le-mans.skyrock.com/
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur http://militarianominatif.forumactif.org
Tout d'abord mon 98b est tout au même numéro comme tu pourras le remarquer sur les photos et n'a subit aucune modif ni réparation, que ce soit par l'Armée Allemande, ou par la suite après sa capture sur un élément SS de Thiers.
Le marquage S28 est lui aussi d'origine comme l'embouchoir.

Ensuite pour le marquage 1920 sur le boitier, ne te fit pas à la littérature US mais plus aux ouvrages Européens dont les livres de Jean HUON qui montre preuve à l'appui (photos) les différents marquages dont celui des dates de boitiers.

AS-GMO, mon commentaire n'était pas du tout "critique" (malheureusement, je sais qu'il est facile de se méprendre sur le ton de quelques lignes écrites  Crying or Very sad ), au contraire ! Il est évident que ton exemplaire est 300% authentique, vu son historique, et c'est justement en cela qu'il est assez exceptionnel je trouve. Je suis justement très intéressé par le fait qu'il comporte deux caractéristiques que je n'avais jamais vu répertoriées jusqu'ici en même temps, que ce soit dans la "littérature" US (les Américains peuvent être à la fois très pointus, mais également eux-mêmes un peu perdus, notamment sur les armes européennes de la Seconde Guerre mondiale car ils ont été véritablement inondés de remontages fantaisistes, faux marquages - notamment SS, etc. au point où certains considèrent désormais que tout marquage SS est un faux  Wink ) ou européenne : le marquage "S28" (qui figure généralement sur des exemplaires au boîtier vierge, non daté) et une date sur le boîtier ( que ce soit 1920 ou ultérieure)(il faut que je me replonge dans l'ouvrage de J. Huon que je possède également - quelque part  Very Happy ).
C'est donc une variante d'autant plus intéressante que tu as en ta possession cheers  et j'étais également intéressé de savoir si ton 98b possédait d'autres marquages "S 28" (par exemple sous le boîtier).

A mon sens, ceci illustre parfaitement les objectifs d'un forum comme celui-ci : le partage et l'enrichissement mutuel  cheers 

@Admin: ça y est, j'ai vu ton post  Wink Et là encore, très intéressante variante avec un parcours "chargé" d'histoire!

A+

Voir le profil de l'utilisateur
Du coup, je me suis replongé dans "ma" littérature sur le Mauser 98, et j'ai retrouvé un article US traitant justement des variantes du 98b - et surtout du marquage 1920 sur le boîtier de variante dite "S 28"  Very Happy 
Apparemment, pour cette variante, jusqu'au N° de série 9000a, pas de date, trois poinçons d'inspection "O avec couronne" sur la droite du boîtier. Après, deux poinçons "O surmonté d'une couronne" et un poinçon "aigle sur S", la date 1920 apparaissant à partir du N° de série 6000a.
Est-ce que tu confirmes ces caractéristiques sur le tien, AS-GMO (j'imagine que oui  Very Happy ).

Voir le profil de l'utilisateur
Tout d'abord Merci pour ta réponse qui me rassure car j'avais compris (mal très certainement) que tu mettais en doute l'authenticité de mon G98b.
Rassure toi car avec ce que tu viens de m'expliquer, le doute est levé et toutes mes excuses pour ce quiproquo.

konopka a écrit:
et j'étais également intéressé de savoir si ton 98b possédait d'autres marquages "S 28" (par exemple sous le boîtier).

Non j'ai regardé partout et c'est le seul endroit où le marquage S 28 apparaît.

konopka a écrit:
Apparemment, pour cette variante, jusqu'au N° de série 9000a, pas de date, trois poinçons d'inspection "O avec couronne" sur la droite du boîtier. Après, deux poinçons "O surmonté d'une couronne" et un poinçon "aigle sur S", la date 1920 apparaissant à partir du N° de série 6000a.
Est-ce que tu confirmes ces caractéristiques sur le tien, AS-GMO.

Tout à fait et le miens porte le numéro 9622a dont le numéro est répété sur tout le fusil, parfois seulement 9622, soit sur des parties plus petites juste la fin du numéro soit 22.
L'embouchoir marqué S 28 comporte bien le numéro 9622 qui prouve son origine depuis la sortie d'usine du fusil. Et que cette pièce n'a pas été remplacée !

Merci à toi et toutes mes excuses encore...

Sincères amitiés...

Voir le profil de l'utilisateur
Merci de ces renseignements supplémentaires basés sur un exemplaire 100% authentique - dont la provenance est connue - qui viennent enrichir la "base de données" sur les 98b. Faute de littérature très étoffée sur ce modèle particulier, il semble en effet que la meilleure façon d'en savoir au maximum est de récolter et d'enregistrer les caractéristiques de tous les modèles connus.

Rassure toi car avec ce que tu viens de m'expliquer, le doute est levé et toutes mes excuses pour ce quiproquo

Ouf!  Very Happy  Je m'en voulais aussi que le ton de mon commentaire ait été mal interprété - ça serait dommage à peine arrivé sur le forum !  Embarassed 

Cdt et A+

Voir le profil de l'utilisateur
Un petit ajout par rapport à ce modèle : cet exemplaire précis apparaît dans le livre "Karabiner 98k Volume 1: A collectors guide to the development and production of the German K98k service rifle up to 1938" de Michael Steves et Bruce Karem (N°182a avec "h" et 3 "O" avec couronnes)  tongue







Par contre, aucune info sur sa provenance, son historique, etc... ni non plus sur le marquage SS. Dommage Crying or Very sad !

Voir le profil de l'utilisateur
Merci pour ces infos très intéressantes. Dommage qu'elles soient en british !
J'en déduis que le mien est dans la série S28-9300 puisque il porte le numéro 9622a.

Qu'en penses-tu ?

Sincères amitiés...

Voir le profil de l'utilisateur

Contenu sponsorisé


Voir le sujet précédent Voir le sujet suivant Revenir en haut  Message [Page 1 sur 1]

Permission de ce forum:
Vous ne pouvez pas répondre aux sujets dans ce forum